Cults - are you in one?

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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 24HourNut » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:23 am

Brian wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:All religions are cults.


I wouldn't really put it that way. A religion is cult that made the big time. Christianity was a Jewish cult at one time (although some Jews would argue that it wasn't really that Jewish, but that's kind of the point).


Regardless of how "big" a religion is its still a cult, albeit a "big" cult.


Once it gets to a sufficient size, though, no one calls it a "cult".


I do, and maybe more don't because of the social conditioning that renders larger ones ("organized religions") as more legitimate. I think it just comes down to "common usage" versus real definition.


"Common usage" is the real definition. That's how language works. Take the word "decimated". Originally, to "decimate" meant to kill one out of every 10 of a group. It's not used that way anymore, but it's not "wrong" to use it in the "new" way.


True, but I guess I feel that cult applies far more than something outdated or changed like that. It's my position that organized religions are cults in fact and by definition, and should be seen that way. So I guess I am not sold that the term should go away and not apply. I feel as though it is way too applicable. Size of the cult doesn't convince me, either. I understand this is a grey area or that I may be wrong but that is how I honestly feel. I think the subscribers to these faiths, especially the avid or fundamentalist ones, totally exhibit the traits and behavior one can reasonably associate with a cult. That is why I am not so sure the common usage is far off enough to not be brought back into the fold on truth and principle.
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 2bits » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:18 am

you are missing the most obvious marker of a cult, they are lead by usually one charismatic person who through deception and or control leads a group of tens or even tens of hundreds into a delusion of false and extreme beliefs, and while you could argue that Christianity stems from one person "Christ" and that he is the leader of the cult you would be mistaken.

cults tend to die with the leader, "jim jones" would be an example of a cult with a leader that once dead the following itself died.

If you can point to one leader of "Christianity" that is alive today then perhaps you would have a leg to stand on, but we all know that faith and belief are two entirely different things so be very careful with your answer.

Christianity crossed the line from what could have been called a cult in its beginning while Christ still walked on the earth, but since His death Christanity has survived on something other than charisma hasn't it?
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 24HourNut » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:17 am

A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 2bits » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:36 pm

24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?
Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country.

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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby Brian » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:42 pm

2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


The only group that I could think of which could be called a cult (in the sense that 2bits is using it) whose leader has died would be Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard is long dead. (I don't mean this to start a flame war with Scientologists on the board. It's just that to a non-Scientologist, Scientology would be a false belief lead by an (arguably) charismatic leader in the beginning.)
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 24HourNut » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:23 pm

2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


As an example? How about any of the 30,000 sects within Christianity or Christianity itself, even.
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 2bits » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:55 pm

24HourNut wrote:
2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


As an example? How about any of the 30,000 sects within Christianity or Christianity itself, even.



So, you see every sect as a cult?

does that then in fact make those not associated with any sect to also be a cult?

are atheists a cult then? since their beliefs are that God does not exist setting themselves apart from those who do believe would then meet your criteria as a cult.

I mean hell nut if minor variances in Christianity,dogma,theocracy,theology are enough to be labeled as a cult then surely a complete denial "agnosticism" or atheistic view must then qualify.

so every living human is a cult member, interesting I will need to ponder a little on this so don't be shy in the meantime tell us what the cult you reverence believes.
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby Brian » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:28 pm

24HourNut wrote:
2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


As an example? How about any of the 30,000 sects within Christianity or Christianity itself, even.


If you take "cult" to mean all of Christianity, the word loses all its meaning. You might as well just call it "group", then.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 24HourNut » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:25 am

2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


As an example? How about any of the 30,000 sects within Christianity or Christianity itself, even.



So, you see every sect as a cult?

does that then in fact make those not associated with any sect to also be a cult?

are atheists a cult then? since their beliefs are that God does not exist setting themselves apart from those who do believe would then meet your criteria as a cult.

I mean hell nut if minor variances in Christianity,dogma,theocracy,theology are enough to be labeled as a cult then surely a complete denial "agnosticism" or atheistic view must then qualify.

so every living human is a cult member, interesting I will need to ponder a little on this so don't be shy in the meantime tell us what the cult you reverence believes.


I'd say Christianity is a very large and popular cult, and all those sects are actually sub-cults. Everyone I know who is really into any of them acts and says things like they are in a cult and the whole basic thing fits into a cult definition to me so yeah, it all feels like cult to me. It's not MY criteria really - I posted the definition of "cult" from the dictionary in my first post. It seems to fit, so ...
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Re: Cults - are you in one?

Postby 24HourNut » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:26 am

Brian wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
2bits wrote:
24HourNut wrote:A cult is still a cult even if those who started it died.



Really, Name one with proof that the one named is a cult and that that cult is still intact after the death of the leader.

You voice opinion as fact can you do anything with it?


As an example? How about any of the 30,000 sects within Christianity or Christianity itself, even.


If you take "cult" to mean all of Christianity, the word loses all its meaning. You might as well just call it "group", then.


It doesn't lose any meaning to me at all. I call it a very large cult. All the organized religions are cults. It's whole structure and history are cult-like to me.
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