Atheists

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Re: Atheists

Postby 24HourNut » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:51 am

Boba wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Boba wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Boba wrote:Frank, I have a question for you. In your OP you claim to be "Agnostic". Does this mean you're not sure whether you're a fool or not?


It means I am not sure if you are a fool or not. :hello:


Is it just Christians you feel this way towards, or is it all religions and Christians just offer you the most entertainment? Instead of constantly bashing Christians, why don't you tell us what YOU believe in?


I have a problem taking your questions seriously when you asked me the silly fool one quoted above. I was just responding to it in kind. Do you always bash non-subscribers this way? See, it works both ways. My views will be made clear gradually over time if you are not aware of them. I already expressed my view - that I don't think atheists are vile fools.

Watch the video and feel free to comment on it as I have. Don't worry about my views so much.

Ok, we'll address just the video. What does it prove? That there are educated and talented people that don't believe in God? Can they not still make fools of themselves ever? Was Carl Segan (a man I admired) incapable of making a bad decision? Does winning the Noble prize make you omnipotent and therefore incapable of being wrong? (I thought we just proved that one false!) Actually, from a scientific aspect, there is no absolute proof that God does not exist. There is no proof that he does, but I'll just stick to the video for now. It is simply a hypothesis as to whether he exists or not.


I think the video helped drive home the point that people are not at some big disadvantage character wise, functionally, mentally, etc. just because they don't subscribe to cults or buy into myths, superstitions. or archaic embellishments. Big parts of society, the Bible, lots of people, etc. often give the impression that they find others who are atheists or agnostics as sorry, missing out, disadvantaged, troubled, or in some or on some level form inferior or headed for some sort of supernatural afterlife punishment. I think the human race is continuing its gradual awakening from these archaic and ignorant standards and the video just does a little work in the area of showing how being rational and not subscribing to cults is AOK despite the underlying social pressure to accept them. Kids are especially vulnerable to the brainwashing.
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Re: Atheists

Postby 24HourNut » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:56 am

Greeneyes wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Greeneyes wrote:Huh? :scratch: Anyhow, I stand by what I said.


Oh stop with this every atheist you met was insecure or angry. You said that just to get my heart racing and blood flow going in all the right places. How many have you met, 2? Get out a little more. Go to some nice Italian restaurant with a nice Italian agnostic guy like me who will make you think those who don't subscribe to invisible superdaddy clubs are the most generous, realistic, and secure guys you'll ever experience in or out of the bedroom.



I didn't say it to get you all excited. If I wanted to get your heart racing and your blood pumping, I'd just brush up against you. That's all it would take.

I stand by what I said. People who deny the existance of God are either ignorant or believing themselves too intellgent to accept such a thing. Ignorance and arrogance are born of insecurities. Doesn't make you a bad person PIzza Man. We all have them. Well, maybe not me, but then, I'm exceptional. Now, this is where I'd put a big smoochy smilie if we had one.

Atheist or not, you still make me weak in the knees. I'm a sucker for you dark, smoldering types. I ever tell you about the Italian boy who..............


:sneaky: Well ... one is not ignorant or dumb for just admitting they don't know if there is a God. The emotionally weak are the ones who feel, through conditioning, brainwashing, upbringing, whatever ... uncomfortable just saying or feeling that way. It feels better to pretend you know and especially to subscribe to a club/cult so that you can pretend to know even more details.

Fear and emotional insecurity is often found in the subscriber or one who pretends to KNOW something that is not even knowable. Strength and intellectual honesty is often found in the one who admits they don't know something.

So, you have it backwards.
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Re: Atheists

Postby Greeneyes » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:34 am

24HourNut wrote:
Greeneyes wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Greeneyes wrote:Huh? :scratch: Anyhow, I stand by what I said.


Oh stop with this every atheist you met was insecure or angry. You said that just to get my heart racing and blood flow going in all the right places. How many have you met, 2? Get out a little more. Go to some nice Italian restaurant with a nice Italian agnostic guy like me who will make you think those who don't subscribe to invisible superdaddy clubs are the most generous, realistic, and secure guys you'll ever experience in or out of the bedroom.



I didn't say it to get you all excited. If I wanted to get your heart racing and your blood pumping, I'd just brush up against you. That's all it would take.

I stand by what I said. People who deny the existance of God are either ignorant or believing themselves too intellgent to accept such a thing. Ignorance and arrogance are born of insecurities. Doesn't make you a bad person PIzza Man. We all have them. Well, maybe not me, but then, I'm exceptional. Now, this is where I'd put a big smoochy smilie if we had one.

Atheist or not, you still make me weak in the knees. I'm a sucker for you dark, smoldering types. I ever tell you about the Italian boy who..............


:sneaky: Well ... one is not ignorant or dumb for just admitting they don't know if there is a God. The emotionally weak are the ones who feel, through conditioning, brainwashing, upbringing, whatever ... uncomfortable just saying or feeling that way. It feels better to pretend you know and especially to subscribe to a club/cult so that you can pretend to know even more details.

Fear and emotional insecurity is often found in the subscriber or one who pretends to KNOW something that is not even knowable. Strength and intellectual honesty is often found in the one who admits they don't know something.

So, you have it backwards.



OK. I didn't say you were dumb, I didn't use the word weak. So, are you saying you don't know if there is a God as opposed to saying emphatically He does not exist? I'm happy to discuss this with you, but you need to draw in your claws. I make a valid point. Anytime something bothers me as much as the subject of God bothers you, I want to know why. Used to really make me mad when someone would tell me they thought my belief in God made me stupid. Then, I came to realization, we are all searching for something. Even those of you who claim to believe nothing believe something. I've found peace in mine and I sincerely hope you do with yours.
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Re: Atheists

Postby 24HourNut » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:53 am

I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist. I have no idea if the Greeks had it right with their Gods, or some other culture has it right. It seems likely they all have it wrong by virtue of that fact that we can all pick and choose but the bottom line is I recognize it is possible for there to be a God. I do not believe it is ignorant or insecure to not know if there is a God or to even believe there is no God. If anything, I believe it is hopeful and emotionally fulfilling to our insecure nature to subscribe to a club/cult or claim to know there is a God or any of a God's details.
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Re: Atheists

Postby Greeneyes » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:58 am

24HourNut wrote:I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist. I have no idea if the Greeks had it right with their Gods, or some other culture has it right. It seems likely they all have it wrong by virtue of that fact that we can all pick and choose but the bottom line is I recognize it is possible for there to be a God. I do not believe it is ignorant or insecure to not know if there is a God or to even believe there is no God. If anything, I believe it is hopeful and emotionally fulfilling to our insecure nature to subscribe to a club/cult or claim to know there is a God or any of a God's details.




OK. I'm glad you are peaceful with that.
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Re: Atheists

Postby Gator5220 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:38 am

24HourNut wrote:I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist.


That's because you don't know him. You deny him here and he will deny you on your day of judgment.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:23
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Re: Atheists

Postby Cynicalninja » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:42 am

Gator5220 wrote:
24HourNut wrote:I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist.


That's because you don't know him. You deny him here and he will deny you on your day of judgment.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:23


:lol:

I love religion, it always makes me laugh, I am always amazed at how people can have such faith in fairytales because they are afraid of death.

Oh wait, you aren't afraid of death because heaven awaits?
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Re: Atheists

Postby Gator5220 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:44 am

Ninja, if you don't delete that cartoon I will.
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Re: Atheists

Postby 24HourNut » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:59 am

Greeneyes wrote:
24HourNut wrote:I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist. I have no idea if the Greeks had it right with their Gods, or some other culture has it right. It seems likely they all have it wrong by virtue of that fact that we can all pick and choose but the bottom line is I recognize it is possible for there to be a God. I do not believe it is ignorant or insecure to not know if there is a God or to even believe there is no God. If anything, I believe it is hopeful and emotionally fulfilling to our insecure nature to subscribe to a club/cult or claim to know there is a God or any of a God's details.


OK. I'm glad you are peaceful with that.


I don't know if peaceful is the right word. I am not exactly peaceful with volcanoes but it is what it is.
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Re: Atheists

Postby Brian » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:01 pm

Gator5220 wrote:
24HourNut wrote:I have no idea if a God or multiple Gods really exist.


That's because you don't know him. You deny him here and he will deny you on your day of judgment.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:23


Hi, Gator.

Isn't it pretty obvious that if you don't know something, you'll have no idea if it exists or not? That's essentially a tautology.

The more interesting question, for people like Frank and me, is why God doesn't reveal himself, if he exists.

Think about it for a second. If God exists, and if eternal bliss in salvation is available for all, don't you think non-believers would want to believe it? Do you really think there are people dense enough to say to themselves, "Well, gee, I'd really like eternal salvation and all, but that would mean I'd have to give up having premarital sex, and I'd have to call off that satanic ritual I was planning for Saturday."? I can tell you: It doesn't really work that way.

Now, keep in mind: I'm not saying God doesn't exist. I don't believe God exists, but I could certainly be wrong. What follows are some of the reasons that would (and did, in my case) lead someone to not believe in Christianity, despite all the positive things that Christianity could mean for them, if they believed in it.

There are a few factors which lead people to disbelief:

1) Problems with the logical consequences of Christian theology.

If Christianity is the truth, it means that there are many well-meaning, sincere, and compassionate people who are, nonetheless, going to spend eternity in agony -- including, possibly, the loved ones of the unbeliever him/herself. That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Equally tough is the idea that there's a loving, compassionate God in a world of such utter suffering. In fact, if one posits a God that actually loves humanity, it's hard to square that with the untold suffering around us (particularly that suffering not caused by human beings themselves).

2) Lack of concrete evidence.

Because of the logical consequences of Christian theology, it's important for people to know (or at least have very strong reason to believe) it's true. But because Christian theology is based around events that happened 2000+ years ago, that evidence is absent. It's not that there's not a lot of it. The evidence for Christian theology being true is absent, even acknowledging the historical existence of a person named Jesus of Nazareth. There's simply no evidence external from the Bible (which is, after all, a religious document, rather than a historical one) that Jesus rose from the dead, much less that he died for our sins and bought us eternal salvation through said death.

3) Evidence that there are falsehoods in the Bible.

Read the four gospels side by side (rather than one at a time). You'll begin to notice something: The gospel stories aren't in agreement about key questions (e.g., where Jesus was born).

Bart Ehrman summarizes some of the differences between the Gospels in Jesus, Interrupted:

Bart Ehrman wrote:Who actually went to the tomb? Was it Mary alone (John 20:1)? Mary and another Mary (Matthew 28:1)? Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome (Mark 16:1)? Or women who had accompanied Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem? -- possibly Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and "other women" (Luke 24:1; see 23:55)? Had the stone already been rolled away form the tomb? (as in Mark 16:4) or was it rolled away by an angel while the women were there (Matthew 28:2)? Whom or what did they see there? An angel (Matthew 28:5)? A young man (Mark 16:5)? Two men (Luke 24:4)? Or nothing and no one (John)? And what were they told? To tell the disciples to "go to Galilee," where Jesus will meet them (Mark 16:7)? Or to remember what Jesus had told them "while he was in Galilee," that he had to die and rise again (Luke 24:7)? Then, do the women tell the disciples what they saw and heard (Matthew 28:8) or do they not tell anyone (Mark 16:8)? If they tell someone, whom do they tell? The eleven disciples (Matthew 28:8)? the eleven disciples and other people (Luke 24:8)? Simon Peter and another unnamed disciple (John 20:2)? What do the disciples do in response? Do they have no response because Jesus himself immediately appears to them (Matthew 20:9)? Do they not believe the women because it seems to be "an idle tale" (Luke 24:11)? Or do they go to the tomb to see for themselves (John 20:3)?
(Jesus, Interrupted, pg. 48)

Not all of these accounts in the gospels can be correct, so there are definitely falsehoods in the gospels.

So that's basically it. You've got a religious document that's not entirely trustworthy on its own, lack of concrete evidence outside of that document for many of its claims, and difficult consequences if the theology is true. Combined, these make Christianity very hard to swallow.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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