Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Brian » Thu May 27, 2010 11:10 am

Cynicalninja wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:Meh.

My bottom line is "whatever can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?


But you can get to the bottom of the garden. Anything you can actually investigate, you have no reason to remain agnostic about. You can't investigate the existence of God the same way. You can say that a lot of the things attributed to God in the Middle Ages have scientific explanations, but you can't (currently) dismiss entirely the idea of an afterlife, and it's kind of difficult to solve the infinite regress problem you run into when you try to explain the beginning of existence itself.


But the fairies are invisible like God, yet I KNOW they are there, how do you "investigate" and prove me wrong?


Because you put them in a discrete place (the bottom of your garden) they can be investigated. Even invisible fairies would be detectable in a garden. You'd have to shuffle them off to another plane of existence to make the situations similar. And even then, you'd have to attribute some real, unexplainable phenomenon to them for it to be the same situation.

This is a trap atheists sometimes fall into. The fact that the existence of God can't be proven doesn't mean that all believers are psychotic five year-olds.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Millennium » Thu May 27, 2010 11:18 am

Cynicalninja wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:Meh.

My bottom line is "whatever can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?


But you can get to the bottom of the garden. Anything you can actually investigate, you have no reason to remain agnostic about. You can't investigate the existence of God the same way. You can say that a lot of the things attributed to God in the Middle Ages have scientific explanations, but you can't (currently) dismiss entirely the idea of an afterlife, and it's kind of difficult to solve the infinite regress problem you run into when you try to explain the beginning of existence itself.


But the fairies are invisible like God, yet I KNOW they are there, how do you "investigate" and prove me wrong?



Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something. Other than that, your fairies are no different than Big Foot. Is there a major religion based on your fairies? Are buildings of worship built for your fairies?

God has a lot more going for him, even you have to admit that. Proving God exists is impossible, proving he doesn't is too.

Can you provide generally accepted evidence your fairies exist?...In a court of law they use a Bible, I have yet to see them drag out Grimms Book of Fairy Tales and swear someone in..

Is that prove there is a God?. Nope, but it is generally accepted as evidence.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Thu May 27, 2010 11:31 am

Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:Meh.

My bottom line is "whatever can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?


But you can get to the bottom of the garden. Anything you can actually investigate, you have no reason to remain agnostic about. You can't investigate the existence of God the same way. You can say that a lot of the things attributed to God in the Middle Ages have scientific explanations, but you can't (currently) dismiss entirely the idea of an afterlife, and it's kind of difficult to solve the infinite regress problem you run into when you try to explain the beginning of existence itself.


But the fairies are invisible like God, yet I KNOW they are there, how do you "investigate" and prove me wrong?


Because you put them in a discrete place (the bottom of your garden) they can be investigated. Even invisible fairies would be detectable in a garden. You'd have to shuffle them off to another plane of existence to make the situations similar. And even then, you'd have to attribute some real, unexplainable phenomenon to them for it to be the same situation.

This is a trap atheists sometimes fall into. The fact that the existence of God can't be proven doesn't mean that all believers are psychotic five year-olds.


However I submit that all believers are filling emotional holes whether they realize it or not.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Thu May 27, 2010 11:35 am

Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Millennium » Thu May 27, 2010 11:47 am

24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.


Nice try Frank.....You can't prove he doesn't exist. I can't prove he does..Agreed..I am fine with my faith. You totally missed the whole point though....the belief in Fairies has been around, probably longer than the belief in a single God...And yet the belief in fairies is seen as nothing more than a childlike story...The belief in God is no where near a simply defined.

The part that I don't understand, is why the atheists try so hard to convince believers they are wrong, when the vast majority of us don't care if you believe or not.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Thu May 27, 2010 11:49 am

Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.


Nice try Frank.....You can't prove he doesn't exist. I can't prove he does..Agreed..I am fine with my faith. You totally missed the whole point though....the belief in Fairies has been around, probably longer than the belief in a single God...And yet the belief in fairies is seen as nothing more than a childlike story...The belief in God is no where near a simply defined.

The part that I don't understand, is why the atheists try so hard to convince believers they are wrong, when the vast majority of us don't care if you believe or not.


The belief in God is seen as a child-like emotional fill by lots of people, just like fairies are. The difference is God is a fairy story for adults. Not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just saying your belief is right up there with believing in fairies. A child-like symptom is thinking the Super Fairy intervenes and performs selected cherrypicked miracles in hospitals, for example.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Millennium » Thu May 27, 2010 12:35 pm

24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.


Nice try Frank.....You can't prove he doesn't exist. I can't prove he does..Agreed..I am fine with my faith. You totally missed the whole point though....the belief in Fairies has been around, probably longer than the belief in a single God...And yet the belief in fairies is seen as nothing more than a childlike story...The belief in God is no where near a simply defined.

The part that I don't understand, is why the atheists try so hard to convince believers they are wrong, when the vast majority of us don't care if you believe or not.


The belief in God is seen as a child-like emotional fill by lots of people, just like fairies are. The difference is God is a fairy story for adults. Not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just saying your belief is right up there with believing in fairies. A child-like symptom is thinking the Super Fairy intervenes and performs selected cherrypicked miracles in hospitals, for example.



I disagree...it is not seen as a "child like emotional fill by a lots of people", in fact the majority (92% of America) say they have a belief in God and religion, according to a recent Opinion Dynamics Corporation Poll..The people that use your excuse are simply those that are in an all out effort to minimize religion.

Do you believe there is life on another planet? You have absolutely no proof, but I'll bet you do. Nothing more than a fairy tale.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Thu May 27, 2010 1:12 pm

Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.


Nice try Frank.....You can't prove he doesn't exist. I can't prove he does..Agreed..I am fine with my faith. You totally missed the whole point though....the belief in Fairies has been around, probably longer than the belief in a single God...And yet the belief in fairies is seen as nothing more than a childlike story...The belief in God is no where near a simply defined.

The part that I don't understand, is why the atheists try so hard to convince believers they are wrong, when the vast majority of us don't care if you believe or not.


The belief in God is seen as a child-like emotional fill by lots of people, just like fairies are. The difference is God is a fairy story for adults. Not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just saying your belief is right up there with believing in fairies. A child-like symptom is thinking the Super Fairy intervenes and performs selected cherrypicked miracles in hospitals, for example.



I disagree...it is not seen as a "child like emotional fill by a lots of people", in fact the majority (92% of America) say they have a belief in God and religion, according to a recent Opinion Dynamics Corporation Poll..The people that use your excuse are simply those that are in an all out effort to minimize religion.

Do you believe there is life on another planet? You have absolutely no proof, but I'll bet you do. Nothing more than a fairy tale.


It is seen as a fairy tale for adults by lots and lots of people because we know that is the view of lots of atheists alone. They see God and religion as man-made and a way to control fear and answer questions ... fill emotional holes. Sure, many believe in God and subscribe to religion but that only shows you how adults emotionally need to have answers, purpose, etc.

What is the big difference between super characters and invisible fairies, Santa Claus, etc. and what God is to adults? Very similar ... and just like kids who grow up ... the older the kids, the less they believe in that nonsense. That is just like humans .. as time goes on and we get out of the archaic and medieval times (grow out of our infancy stage lacking crucial basic information), more and more people (grow up) realize organized religion is BS and that God is a convenient answer and a possibility not unlike a fairy tale for adults that may or may not be true.

I don't know if there is life on other planets, and like the God question, I don't feel the need to pretend I know and live an adult fairy tale of assumption, hope, and confusing fact with faith. Faith is just personal belief, and an invisible super daddy in the sky is just like an adult version of a kid fairy tale. It's an emotional based wish and guess, that's all. Unless you want to count whatever fantasy goes on in your head as "evidence." This is why it is so ridiculous to so many when we hear people say someone was helped in a hospital by God. That is something a child would say, in our minds.

Millions if not billions at this point throughout history find what you believe to superstitious child-like hopes and wishes. Calling it "faith" just tries to validate it and make it sound all official and real. It's just as real as a kid believing in the tooth fairy as far as we know. But you have fun pretending it is more because there are "books" and "buildings" or whatever other ridiculous "evidence" you've convinced yourself of having in the throes of intellectual and emotional dishonesty.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Millennium » Thu May 27, 2010 1:19 pm

24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:
24HourNut wrote:
Millennium wrote:Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something.


No he would not be "on to something." A book of that nature only shows the nature of people that follow and wrote it - not even a drop toward proving anything about a God. Buildings of worship do not prove God at all - it proves what people are willing to build, period. Same for swearing on the Bible in court, which is ridiculous for anyone but the truly brainwashed to do. God has zero more "going for him" than fairies, and this is shown by the ridiculous "support" you just described for God.


Nice try Frank.....You can't prove he doesn't exist. I can't prove he does..Agreed..I am fine with my faith. You totally missed the whole point though....the belief in Fairies has been around, probably longer than the belief in a single God...And yet the belief in fairies is seen as nothing more than a childlike story...The belief in God is no where near a simply defined.

The part that I don't understand, is why the atheists try so hard to convince believers they are wrong, when the vast majority of us don't care if you believe or not.


The belief in God is seen as a child-like emotional fill by lots of people, just like fairies are. The difference is God is a fairy story for adults. Not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just saying your belief is right up there with believing in fairies. A child-like symptom is thinking the Super Fairy intervenes and performs selected cherrypicked miracles in hospitals, for example.



I disagree...it is not seen as a "child like emotional fill by a lots of people", in fact the majority (92% of America) say they have a belief in God and religion, according to a recent Opinion Dynamics Corporation Poll..The people that use your excuse are simply those that are in an all out effort to minimize religion.

Do you believe there is life on another planet? You have absolutely no proof, but I'll bet you do. Nothing more than a fairy tale.


It is seen as a fairy tale for adults by lots and lots of people because we know that is the view of lots of atheists alone. They seen God and religion as man-made and a way to control fear and answer questions ... fill emotional holes. Sure, many believe in God and subscribe to religion but that only shows you how adults emotionally need to have answers, purpose, etc.

What is the big difference between super characters and invisible fairies, Santa Clause, etc. and what God is to adults? Very similar ... and just like kids who grow up ... the older the kids, the less they believe in that nonsense. That is just like humans .. as time goes on and we get out of the archaic and medieval times (grow up), more and more people realize organized religion is BS and that God is a convenient answer and a possibility not unlike a fairy tale for adults that may or may not be true.

I don't know if there is life on other planets, and like the God question, I don't feel the need to pretend I know and live an adult fairy tale of assumption, hope, and confusing fact with faith. Faith is just personal belief, and an invisible super daddy in the sky is just like an adult version of a kid fairy tale. It's an emotional based wish and guess, that's all. That is why it is so ridiculous to so many when we hear people say someone was helped in a hospital by God.

Millions if not billions at this point throughout history find what you believe to superstitious child-like hopes and wishes. Calling it "faith" just tries to validate it and make it sound all official and real. It's just as real as a kid believing in the tooth fairy as far as we know. But you have fun pretending it is more because there are "books" and "buildings" or whatever other ridiculous "evidence" you've convinced yourself of having in the throes of intellectual and emotional dishonesty.


You don't believe...we get it...why do you give a damn if others do?...I don't care that you don't, but you and others like you, have this obsession with trying to shame or embarrass others that do.

Don't believe Frank, honestly, I don't care, and you'll not see me calling you names and trying to minimize you in the process, like your side always has to do. Do as you wish, who cares? What is this obsession you have with trying to minimize people that have a belief in a greater power? Does it make you feel superior? Is that it?
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Cynicalninja » Thu May 27, 2010 2:17 pm

Millennium wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:
Brian wrote:
Cynicalninja wrote:Meh.

My bottom line is "whatever can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?


But you can get to the bottom of the garden. Anything you can actually investigate, you have no reason to remain agnostic about. You can't investigate the existence of God the same way. You can say that a lot of the things attributed to God in the Middle Ages have scientific explanations, but you can't (currently) dismiss entirely the idea of an afterlife, and it's kind of difficult to solve the infinite regress problem you run into when you try to explain the beginning of existence itself.


But the fairies are invisible like God, yet I KNOW they are there, how do you "investigate" and prove me wrong?



Produce a book that shows and proves for thousands of years people have worshiped your fairies, and you'll be on to something. Other than that, your fairies are no different than Big Foot. Is there a major religion based on your fairies? Are buildings of worship built for your fairies?

God has a lot more going for him, even you have to admit that. Proving God exists is impossible, proving he doesn't is too.

Can you provide generally accepted evidence your fairies exist?...In a court of law they use a Bible, I have yet to see them drag out Grimms Book of Fairy Tales and swear someone in..

Is that prove there is a God?. Nope, but it is generally accepted as evidence.


I agree the God delusion is a bigger and far more popular delusion than they fairy one, to me it is still a delusion none the less, as for fairies, there are people out there who believe in fairies and there are many websites dedicated to this idea. These people believe in the existence of fairies as much as religions believe in God/Gods, and their claims are equally impossible to disprove or debunk.

No book of faith can prove the existence of a God/Gods, anymore than Jurassic Park can prove the existence of cloned dinosaurs roaming around theme park islands.
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