Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

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Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Tue May 25, 2010 9:44 am

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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Brian » Tue May 25, 2010 9:58 am



That's probably the silliest "proof" for the non-existence of God that I've ever seen.

The Christian God (in their doctrine) created the universe, so of course he could exist outside of it. The definition of "universe" that the narrator is using is completely ill-suited for the discussion. (And that's not even counting the fact that he ignores things like the possibility of multiple universes. Also, the "proof" fails if the universe is infinite.

Short of being dead, there is no proving or disproving the existence of a creator God. (And as we've discussed before, there are conceptions of God that you wouldn't even necessarily find proof of if you did die.)

Seriously, does this guy think all theists are simpletons?
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Tue May 25, 2010 11:45 am

Brian wrote:


That's probably the silliest "proof" for the non-existence of God that I've ever seen.

The Christian God (in their doctrine) created the universe, so of course he could exist outside of it. The definition of "universe" that the narrator is using is completely ill-suited for the discussion. (And that's not even counting the fact that he ignores things like the possibility of multiple universes. Also, the "proof" fails if the universe is infinite.

Short of being dead, there is no proving or disproving the existence of a creator God. (And as we've discussed before, there are conceptions of God that you wouldn't even necessarily find proof of if you did die.)

Seriously, does this guy think all theists are simpletons?


Not really, because if you created everything how can you be outside of everything (Universe)? Multiple Universes would be included under the umbrella of Everything (Total Universe). How can a God be outside of everything?
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Boba » Tue May 25, 2010 12:13 pm

Brian wrote:


That's probably the silliest "proof" for the non-existence of God that I've ever seen.

The Christian God (in their doctrine) created the universe, so of course he could exist outside of it. The definition of "universe" that the narrator is using is completely ill-suited for the discussion. (And that's not even counting the fact that he ignores things like the possibility of multiple universes. Also, the "proof" fails if the universe is infinite.

Short of being dead, there is no proving or disproving the existence of a creator God. (And as we've discussed before, there are conceptions of God that you wouldn't even necessarily find proof of if you did die.)

Seriously, does this guy think all theists are simpletons?


I agree Brian. This is pretty lame. Not a well thought out premiss.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Boba » Tue May 25, 2010 12:34 pm

24HourNut wrote:
Brian wrote:


That's probably the silliest "proof" for the non-existence of God that I've ever seen.

The Christian God (in their doctrine) created the universe, so of course he could exist outside of it. The definition of "universe" that the narrator is using is completely ill-suited for the discussion. (And that's not even counting the fact that he ignores things like the possibility of multiple universes. Also, the "proof" fails if the universe is infinite.

Short of being dead, there is no proving or disproving the existence of a creator God. (And as we've discussed before, there are conceptions of God that you wouldn't even necessarily find proof of if you did die.)

Seriously, does this guy think all theists are simpletons?


Not really, because if you created everything how can you be outside of everything (Universe)? Multiple Universes would be included under the umbrella of Everything (Total Universe). How can a God be outside of everything?


You are assuming that mankinds definition of "The universe" is the do all, end all, last word on it. It has been proven time and again that we really know realitivly little about it. The concept is that God created everything "WE" know of. That is not to say there is nothing else (And there probably is more then we know about)
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Brian » Tue May 25, 2010 1:55 pm

24HourNut wrote:Not really, because if you created everything how can you be outside of everything (Universe)? Multiple Universes would be included under the umbrella of Everything (Total Universe). How can a God be outside of everything?


A creator God would have to be outside of everything. You can't create something and simultaneously be a part of it. A creator God existing would mean an infinite God and a finite (at least, in regards to time) universe.

And in terms of multiple universes, just because God created this universe, it doesn't mean he/she/it created every universe. Our universe could be finite, and the one God comes from could be infinite.

Remember: "The universe" is everything we perceive, not necessarily everything there is. That's where the narrator's argument falls apart.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby 24HourNut » Tue May 25, 2010 3:34 pm

Again, how can you be outside of EVERYTHING? Now we are getting into the nutty "just always existed" thinking. If you exist outside of everything, there was no reason or way for you to be. If you exist within something, you didn't create everything, then.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Brian » Tue May 25, 2010 4:32 pm

24HourNut wrote:Again, how can you be outside of EVERYTHING? Now we are getting into the nutty "just always existed" thinking. If you exist outside of everything, there was no reason or way for you to be. If you exist within something, you didn't create everything, then.


My point is that his definition of "universe" might not be correct. A god could exist outside the observable universe and still not exist outside "everything".

Further, when we talk about "everything", we're talking about the physical realm, as we understand it. By some scientific estimates, there are 7 "extra" dimensions of space that we have some evidence for (theoretically) but can't observe directly.

And finally, there's always a chicken-and-egg problem, with every creation theory. We know the universe came into existence at some point. Therefore, if causality is valid, something came before the universe, to cause it.
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About the things you could not show her."

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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Millennium » Tue May 25, 2010 4:40 pm

Brian wrote:
24HourNut wrote:Again, how can you be outside of EVERYTHING? Now we are getting into the nutty "just always existed" thinking. If you exist outside of everything, there was no reason or way for you to be. If you exist within something, you didn't create everything, then.


My point is that his definition of "universe" might not be correct. A god could exist outside the observable universe and still not exist outside "everything".

Further, when we talk about "everything", we're talking about the physical realm, as we understand it. By some scientific estimates, there are 7 "extra" dimensions of space that we have some evidence for (theoretically) but can't observe directly.

And finally, there's always a chicken-and-egg problem, with every creation theory. We know the universe came into existence at some point. Therefore, if causality is valid, something came before the universe, to cause it.



That's the whole point I was trying to make at one time....We as humans' try to put things in a way that humans can understand....The fact is, some things exist that defy typical human understanding. Passing it off as "God did it" is as weak as saying there is no God....the fact is, nobody really knows.
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Re: Proving God doesn't exist in 3 minutes

Postby Cynicalninja » Wed May 26, 2010 10:05 am

Meh.

My bottom line is "whatever can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?
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