Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Millennium » Sun May 16, 2010 6:48 pm

What's sad is that every one of us buys insurance..."just in case, we or the other party screws up"..But are unwilling to admit there may be a God. That's pretty cheap insurance,and if there isn't a God, you haven't lot a whole lot, but if there is, that "insurance policy" will pay off big time..

Jes sayin'
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Librtyhead » Sun May 16, 2010 7:15 pm

Even when I was in Catholic school I have always thought that when I die I would realize that this earthly prison was just a stepping stone and that I would finally know that all the bickering was just human emotion and was pretty much useless. I can now believe that once freed from the chains of life I will see that there is not one God but our own selves and for once will gain the freedom of true satisfaction knowing that all religion was just a path that we are given to take or not to take. Maybe the afterlife is easier with love, and that is why we have glimpsed religion as a way to move up another step, because that is all I can comprehend it as, a crude preperation for what is to become of my soul. I do not think in the "one God" frame of mind but the "one conciousness" of everyone. I feel that I may realise "Oh.......thats how it goes" and move on to the next step.
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Brian » Sun May 16, 2010 7:37 pm

Millennium wrote:What's sad is that every one of us buys insurance..."just in case, we or the other party screws up"..But are unwilling to admit there may be a God. That's pretty cheap insurance,and if there isn't a God, you haven't lot a whole lot, but if there is, that "insurance policy" will pay off big time..

Jes sayin'



That's Pascal's Wager. There's a problem with that idea, though: Accepting the idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent being Means that there's a lot in this world you either have to ignore or chalk up to an uncomfortable mystery. A lot of people (myself included) lean towards "God doesn't exist" because the idea of someone being in charge when terrible things happen is more frightening than chalking it up to "sh*t happens".

A friend of mine's girlfriend died recently. He's been approached by Christians (trying to be helpful) saying things like "God decided it was her time". Needless to say, it didn't make my friend want to rush out and join a church. If God has ultimate responsibility for every time someone dies, it makes God not just the biggest, but the only mass murderer in history.

Obviously, Christians don't see things that way, but that's one of the reasons why theism is such a hard sell to someone looking at it from the outside.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Millennium » Sun May 16, 2010 7:41 pm

Brian wrote:
Millennium wrote:What's sad is that every one of us buys insurance..."just in case, we or the other party screws up"..But are unwilling to admit there may be a God. That's pretty cheap insurance,and if there isn't a God, you haven't lot a whole lot, but if there is, that "insurance policy" will pay off big time..

Jes sayin'



That's Pascal's Wager. There's a problem with that idea, though: Accepting the idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent being Means that there's a lot in this world you either have to ignore or chalk up to an uncomfortable mystery. A lot of people (myself included) lean towards "God doesn't exist" because the idea of someone being in charge when terrible things happen is more frightening than chalking it up to "sh*t happens".

A friend of mine's girlfriend died recently. He's been approached by Christians (trying to be helpful) saying things like "God decided it was her time". Needless to say, it didn't make my friend want to rush out and join a church. If God has ultimate responsibility for every time someone dies, it makes God not just the biggest, but the only mass murderer in history.

Obviously, Christians don't see things that way, but that's one of the reasons why theism is such a hard sell to someone looking at it from the outside.




You believe in UFO's? Other life in the universe?....not one shred of proof exists...and yet.
Save America, IMPEACH OBAMA! And continue tossing out the deadbeat Democrats that are currently in office.
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Brian » Sun May 16, 2010 7:54 pm

Millennium wrote:
Brian wrote:
Millennium wrote:What's sad is that every one of us buys insurance..."just in case, we or the other party screws up"..But are unwilling to admit there may be a God. That's pretty cheap insurance,and if there isn't a God, you haven't lot a whole lot, but if there is, that "insurance policy" will pay off big time..

Jes sayin'



That's Pascal's Wager. There's a problem with that idea, though: Accepting the idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent being Means that there's a lot in this world you either have to ignore or chalk up to an uncomfortable mystery. A lot of people (myself included) lean towards "God doesn't exist" because the idea of someone being in charge when terrible things happen is more frightening than chalking it up to "sh*t happens".

A friend of mine's girlfriend died recently. He's been approached by Christians (trying to be helpful) saying things like "God decided it was her time". Needless to say, it didn't make my friend want to rush out and join a church. If God has ultimate responsibility for every time someone dies, it makes God not just the biggest, but the only mass murderer in history.

Obviously, Christians don't see things that way, but that's one of the reasons why theism is such a hard sell to someone looking at it from the outside.




You believe in UFO's? Other life in the universe?....not one shred of proof exists...and yet.


The big difference, though, is that belief in extraterrestrial life doesn't cost one anything (unless you go insane and kill yourself to hitch a ride on the Hale-Bopp comet). Believing in an omnipotent, benevolent being that controls this universe does cost you something. It makes the universe more capricious.

The way a lot of theists get around it is to talk about life's mysteries, and to say you just have to trust God. But for someone who isn't yet sold on the idea, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance involved.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Millennium » Sun May 16, 2010 9:20 pm

I'll tell you something.....at some point in everyone's life, they're going to really think pretty hard about it.
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Brian » Sun May 16, 2010 9:31 pm

Millennium wrote:I'll tell you something.....at some point in everyone's life, they're going to really think pretty hard about it.


Absolutely right, Mill. I think anyone who's had an opportunity to contemplate his/her own mortality has to think about such a thing. I've been in that situation numerous times, and I'm still on the fence about it. :dontknow:

The thing that I don't buy is the tack some Christian apologists take: "The only reason you don't believe is because of your personal desires." (I've actually had people say that to me.) Now, I'm sorry, but that's Grade A :bs:. No one with two neurons to rub together would give up eternal life for the freedom to indulge their personal desires. It's about the worst trade-off in the history of the universe (literally). There's a lot more to unbelief than that.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Millennium » Sun May 16, 2010 10:28 pm

Brian wrote:
Millennium wrote:I'll tell you something.....at some point in everyone's life, they're going to really think pretty hard about it.


Absolutely right, Mill. I think anyone who's had an opportunity to contemplate his/her own mortality has to think about such a thing. I've been in that situation numerous times, and I'm still on the fence about it. :dontknow:

The thing that I don't buy is the tack some Christian apologists take: "The only reason you don't believe is because of your personal desires." (I've actually had people say that to me.) Now, I'm sorry, but that's Grade A :bs:. No one with two neurons to rub together would give up eternal life for the freedom to indulge their personal desires. It's about the worst trade-off in the history of the universe (literally). There's a lot more to unbelief than that.



Unfortunately as it is with everything, there are some people that just take things totally too damn far and to the Nth degree of absurd......If you do it as a scientist, you're perceived as thinking out of the box, and a visionary..if you're religious and do it, you're a fanatical nut job..all sides have their detractors.
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby Brian » Sun May 16, 2010 11:12 pm

Millennium wrote:
Brian wrote:
Millennium wrote:I'll tell you something.....at some point in everyone's life, they're going to really think pretty hard about it.


Absolutely right, Mill. I think anyone who's had an opportunity to contemplate his/her own mortality has to think about such a thing. I've been in that situation numerous times, and I'm still on the fence about it. :dontknow:

The thing that I don't buy is the tack some Christian apologists take: "The only reason you don't believe is because of your personal desires." (I've actually had people say that to me.) Now, I'm sorry, but that's Grade A :bs:. No one with two neurons to rub together would give up eternal life for the freedom to indulge their personal desires. It's about the worst trade-off in the history of the universe (literally). There's a lot more to unbelief than that.



Unfortunately as it is with everything, there are some people that just take things totally too damn far and to the Nth degree of absurd......If you do it as a scientist, you're perceived as thinking out of the box, and a visionary..if you're religious and do it, you're a fanatical nut job..all sides have their detractors.


Amen. :D
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
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Re: Will we instantly know God exists when we die?

Postby sirlamre » Mon May 17, 2010 12:18 am

Millennium wrote:What's sad is that every one of us buys insurance..."just in case, we or the other party screws up"..But are unwilling to admit there may be a God. That's pretty cheap insurance,and if there isn't a God, you haven't lot a whole lot, but if there is, that "insurance policy" will pay off big time..

Jes sayin'


Well, I would have said that buying insurance puts more of a contract to perform on the part of the insurance company.

God pretty much gets to roll the dice and decide whether anything you've decided you believe or do is worth anything to Him at the moment He decides.
He can make promises, but who are you to try to enforce them?

I was going to say there's a difference, in that you've paid the insurance company and they are under contract.

But the way things are going with corporations these days, you can pay your money AND get screwed totally.

Either one's not exactly a good chance, because the guy on the other side of the table can do anything he wants-- no penalties at all.

that being said, I do still trust God -- much more than any corporation.
You'd like to hope that the people running the corporation have SOME sort of morals --- but it's becoming rapidly clear that
Saddam Hussein had more morals than most US corporations do...

Fortunately, God sets the standard on that one..
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