Dawkins on Creationists

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Dawkins on Creationists

Postby 24HourNut » Sat May 08, 2010 1:45 pm

I like these two short videos:

One item in particular you could point out to them ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E




Why he doesn't debate them (at least, anymore):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhmsDGanyes

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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Brian » Sat May 08, 2010 3:27 pm

24HourNut wrote:I like these two short videos:

One item in particular you could point out to them ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E



I think Dawkins doesn't really understand the main problem that creationists have. He makes it sound like they're psychotic because they don't recognize facts, but the actual problem, I think, is that they don't recognize science as representing truth. That's what allows them to say things like that with a straight face: They assume that scientists have just misinterpreted what they're seeing. They justify this belief by pointing to all the different times at which scientists have had to reassess theories, but they fail to understand (and this is the most accurate reason why you can't just say one thing to creationists) that there are multiple lines of evidence all pointing to the same conclusion.


Why he doesn't debate them (at least, anymore):



I think that's a cop-out and a disservice to the scientific community. If you debate a flat earther and trounce them, they lose all their credibility. It doesn't make the scientist look bad unless they f*ck it up. Just as importantly, not debating them lets the creationists say, "See? They're afraid to debate us, because they know they don't have a leg to stand on!"

Dawkins and his peers need to get over their intellectual snobbishness and start taking the crackpots on.
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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Librtyhead » Sat May 08, 2010 4:04 pm

Some people do not believe in God and would do battle with believers till the day they die. It's a mystery to me because no matter how many facts are provided nobody can prove it. I do get some comfort believing in a Supreme being though and at times find comfort there. It is only human to ask the question and I believe that there is no right or wrong. It just "is"
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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Brian » Sat May 08, 2010 4:15 pm

Librtyhead wrote:Some people do not believe in God and would do battle with believers till the day they die. It's a mystery to me because no matter how many facts are provided nobody can prove it. I do get some comfort believing in a Supreme being though and at times find comfort there. It is only human to ask the question and I believe that there is no right or wrong. It just "is"


Good point, LH.

It always amazes me when people say they "know" there is or is not a God. It seems to me a reality check would be fairly simple:

Raise your hand if you've ever been a corpse. (I'm not talking about that "My heart stopped for a minute and a half" stuff. I'm talking about being stone cold dead.)

Unless you've ever been a corpse, you have no idea if there's a God or an afterlife. It's not possible for you to know anything about it.
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Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Librtyhead » Sat May 08, 2010 4:40 pm

I do not know what happens when I die, I can only hope for a better understanding, and until humans have another genetic mutation on our evolutionary ladder I prefer to lean towards hope for our future as a species. I also believe that every couple thousand years we have a mutation that gives us insight into why we are here. We can believe it or not. But it will change us.
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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Cynicalninja » Sun May 09, 2010 9:27 am

Dawkin's does make some very good points and enjoyed reading his book the God Delusion.

Unfortunately in interview he can come across as an arrogant and patronising prick.
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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby Brian » Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 am

Cynicalninja wrote:Dawkin's does make some very good points and enjoyed reading his book the God Delusion.

Unfortunately in interview he can come across as an arrogant and patronising prick.


Dawkins writes well, but but unfortunately, he pretty much is an arrogant, patronizing prick. He goes beyond espousing atheism personally to mocking theists. People associate his religious ideas with his scientific ones, and that does a lot of damage to the cause of educating people. It's possible to be an atheist and accept evolution, but it's not necessary.
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Re: Dawkins on Creationists

Postby sirlamre » Thu May 13, 2010 12:09 pm

Brian wrote:Unless you've ever been a corpse, you have no idea if there's a God or an afterlife. It's not possible for you to know anything about it.


Setting aside my own "I believe" hat for a moment--

I'm not sure you'd know for certain if God existed even if you WERE dead.

I think you'd still have just as much of a chance of experiencing human fallibility and the concurrent ability to misunderstand, misperceive, and see-what-you-want-to-see
as we do when alive.

It's a particularly Christian narrow view that
"when you die, you'll instantly understand everything, and no truth or reality will be hidden from you. Everyone will instantly be presented with absolutely irrefutable evidence of what Truth is [according to whatever Christian is telling you this]

Concomitant with the kinds of no-direct-evidence-yet-we-believe-this-and-that ideas that Christians have,
they also firmly believe that EVERYONE, upon the moment of death, will immediately be totally unable to deny the truth of the exact and precise beliefs of the Christian at hand.

I don't think there is that kind of rationale or promise from God, or anything else to say that
once we die, we instantly understand every truth, have no further misunderstandings, we "get it" about how true everything Jesus said was (according to the colors filtered by our own particular belief-sunglasses)

I think we're likely just as subject to human fallibilities as ever..

Some people have this belief that everything God could ever even remotely conceive as a "sin" or a "flaw" will instantanously be wiped out of every human accepted into heaven - we are "made perfect" in every conceivable fashion, every personality trait that God would consider slightly imperfect, etc etc.
Under this belief, God would "wipe away" any sins like:
any and all pride
any ego
any sense of self-sufficiency in any way (since we're supposed to rely upon God the Father for everything)
Any personality traits or emotional reactions that even slightly irritated God once in a while.

That particular belief of Christians (who are alone in that
if fully examined, and developed into a more realistic perception, rather than left as simplistic as most think of it
would reduce humans to nothing more than shells, with little or nothing left of what actually composes most of our
personality.

If (as I believe) God permits us to enter His Kingdom, yet does so with the knowledge that we still have fallibilities, still have work to do in order to be what He wants us to be, etc

then it also seems logical that some of us might go into the next life and NOT "instantly" be fully aware that God
is there, DOES exist, and is pissed off ;-)

What do you think?
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