Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Peering through the mist of time.

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby spot » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:46 pm

I wonder whether the post-occupation Afghan government will ever do the same. Or will the occupiers shred the files before they leave?
User avatar
spot
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby Brian » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:03 pm

spot wrote:I wonder whether the post-occupation Afghan government will ever do the same. Or will the occupiers shred the files before they leave?


That's actually a pretty simple matter, since the Afghans are actually running their own government. If you're not a Taliban, you're collaborating with the government.

The difference between the U.S. and the Germans of the 1940's is we were never fighting to set up Afgansylvania. Occupied France was German land. Even the laws of the Vichy government were only applicable in parts of France not occupied by Germany.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby spot » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:11 pm

Brian wrote:
spot wrote:I wonder whether the post-occupation Afghan government will ever do the same. Or will the occupiers shred the files before they leave?


That's actually a pretty simple matter, since the Afghans are actually running their own government. If you're not a Taliban, you're collaborating with the government.


Indeed that's so but then, the occupation's still ongoing isn't it. I said that if the post-occupation Afghan government is at all sore at having been occupied it might well, in the fullness of time, do what the French government is currently proposing. Ending up sore at having been occupied is a common consequence of occupations, even the residents of Ho Chi Minh City are still a bit touchy that way.

I can't see why anyone would feel confident about the nature of the post-occupation Afghan government. Tuesday's written answers to the Senate Armed Services Committee had General Petraeus describing the security situation there as "tenuous" and insurgents as "resilient and still-confident", particularly in the south of the country. They're not going to form a part of the post-occupation government? I wouldn't bet on it.
User avatar
spot
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby Brian » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:10 pm

spot wrote:
Brian wrote:
spot wrote:I wonder whether the post-occupation Afghan government will ever do the same. Or will the occupiers shred the files before they leave?


That's actually a pretty simple matter, since the Afghans are actually running their own government. If you're not a Taliban, you're collaborating with the government.


Indeed that's so but then, the occupation's still ongoing isn't it. I said that if the post-occupation Afghan government is at all sore at having been occupied it might well, in the fullness of time, do what the French government is currently proposing. Ending up sore at having been occupied is a common consequence of occupations, even the residents of Ho Chi Minh City are still a bit touchy that way.


I could certainly be wrong, but I don't know what the government would have to be touchy about. It's not like the Taliban was a benevolent master. In some ways, the Taliban make even the Nazis (as long as you weren't a French Jew, of course) look like amateurs.

spot wrote:I can't see why anyone would feel confident about the nature of the post-occupation Afghan government. Tuesday's written answers to the Senate Armed Services Committee had General Petraeus describing the security situation there as "tenuous" and insurgents as "resilient and still-confident", particularly in the south of the country. They're not going to form a part of the post-occupation government? I wouldn't bet on it.


I'm sure there will be at least some Taliban or former Taliban in the government. The nature of the region means it'll be pretty hard to keep them out entirely and still have a semblance of a democratic government. But they're not going to have the kind of power they'd need to have a purge of the "collaborators" (for lack of a better term). The majority of the population doesn't support the Taliban. That's why we've had even the level of success we've had.

Is the enemy resilient? Yes. Are they persistent? Yes. But that's not all it takes to win a war. Look at the American Civil War.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby spot » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:31 pm

I think perhaps Americans in general are totally oblivious to the utter detestation in which their armed forces are held by the majority of Afghans. It's strange. You believed it when the Russians occupied Kabul but you can't bring yourselves to look in the mirror.
User avatar
spot
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby Brian » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:01 pm

spot wrote:I think perhaps Americans in general are totally oblivious to the utter detestation in which their armed forces are held by the majority of Afghans. It's strange. You believed it when the Russians occupied Kabul but you can't bring yourselves to look in the mirror.


Again, Russia in Afghanistan was a different situation. There's a clear difference between occupying a region to annex it and occupying it to depose the current leadership. Not all occupations are equal. Do you think France chafed under the occupation by the Allies?
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby spot » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:34 am

Brian wrote:
spot wrote:I think perhaps Americans in general are totally oblivious to the utter detestation in which their armed forces are held by the majority of Afghans. It's strange. You believed it when the Russians occupied Kabul but you can't bring yourselves to look in the mirror.


Again, Russia in Afghanistan was a different situation. There's a clear difference between occupying a region to annex it and occupying it to depose the current leadership. Not all occupations are equal. Do you think France chafed under the occupation by the Allies?


You seriously think the majority of Afghans see the current occupation in any way as a liberation from foreign jackboots? The minority who support the Western forces, the Northern Alliance, are the tribal groupings around the drug barons who wanted back in after the Taliban shut down poppy cultivation and said it wouldn't restart. They're taking what profit they can while they can. They remember what happened to the Soviet Union's client government when the Soviet army finally went home.

All one can do is wait and see. Just remember, eventually, that you were told and you wouldn't listen.
User avatar
spot
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby sledge » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:15 am

Well these French Collaborators should be exposed as they cost many resistance fighters(Maquis) lives which The Gestapo and the SS executed(like the pic LC posted above) they were shocking and brutal times to life in. When an aggressive force occupies a country there will always be resistance as there were in most Countries the Nazis occupied during the war. Today I watched a documentary 'called 'Nancy Wake - Codename 'The White Mouse' about the No1 Australian/French resistance fighter that the Gestapo were trying to apprehend but never was able too so they grabbed and tortured her husband and then execute him when he wouldn't talk.

Read what the Maquis did to collabrators
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pura ... age#France

Also See French Maquis here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(World_War_II)


The Taliban and the Other Extreme Muslim Nuts in our world today want to do the same thing as what Hitler wanted to do.. dominate the world with their way of thinking and beliefs and if u resist your executed.
Image
[b]DOCTOR WHO 5OTH ANNIVERSARY 1963 - 2013[/b]
User avatar
sledge
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:18 am

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby spot » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:23 am

sledge wrote:Well these French Collaborators should be exposed as they cost many resistance fighters(Maquis) lives which The Gestapo and the SS executed(like the pic LC posted above) they were shocking and brutal times to life in. When an aggressive force occupies a country there will always be resistance as there were in most Countries the Nazis occupied during the war. Today I watched a documentary 'called 'Nancy Wake - Codename 'The White Mouse' about the No1 Australian/French resistance fighter that the Gestapo were trying to apprehend but never was able too so they grabbed and tortured her husband and then execute him when he wouldn't talk.


I agree with you entirely. An invariable policy of exposing truth to the light of day is the best possible defence against future betrayal.

The Taliban and the Other Extreme Muslim Nuts in our world today want to do the same thing as what Hitler wanted to do.. dominate the world with their way of thinking and beliefs and if u resist your executed.


That, while interesting, is both demonstrably untrue and wildly off topic.
User avatar
spot
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Thousands of French Nazi collaborators to be exposed

Postby Brian » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:06 pm

spot wrote:
Brian wrote:
spot wrote:I think perhaps Americans in general are totally oblivious to the utter detestation in which their armed forces are held by the majority of Afghans. It's strange. You believed it when the Russians occupied Kabul but you can't bring yourselves to look in the mirror.


Again, Russia in Afghanistan was a different situation. There's a clear difference between occupying a region to annex it and occupying it to depose the current leadership. Not all occupations are equal. Do you think France chafed under the occupation by the Allies?


You seriously think the majority of Afghans see the current occupation in any way as a liberation from foreign jackboots?


As a liberation from foreign jackboots? No. The Taliban may be an oppressive regime, but I'm willing to stipulate that they're the home team. That doesn't mean that clearing them out of an area isn't a liberation of that area, though.

spot wrote:The minority who support the Western forces, the Northern Alliance, are the tribal groupings around the drug barons who wanted back in after the Taliban shut down poppy cultivation and said it wouldn't restart. They're taking what profit they can while they can. They remember what happened to the Soviet Union's client government when the Soviet army finally went home.


It's quite true that Afghanistan is a major player in the heroin and opium trades. On balance, I'd take a poppy-producing regime over a fanatical religious dictatorship. At least a heroin user has to proactively do something to be addicted to heroin.
"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower
Makes you talk a little lower
About the things you could not show her."

-- Counting Crows, "A Long December"
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Next

Return to 24's History Chamber

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron